the Arizona Immigration issue

[Afterthought]

under the law, Arizona could have police detain somebody for suspecting they were here illegally.
and by "somebody", it's heavily implied to be people of Hispanic origin.
so out with: public safety, the "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".
not to mention the Fourth Amendment against unlawful search or seizure.
yeah, that's all gone with Arizona.

some interesting incidents/tidbits:
the Phoenix Suns changed their jerseys to Los Suns to oppose such a law.
MLB is considering moving the All Star game this summer as it was originally going to be in Phoenix.
this funny article discussing the Super Hero point of view.
this ironically timed trailer for a film due out this year: Machete.
good old Robot Chicken had an older version.

in the end, this whole thing just makes me feel dirty.
it's wrong. I can understand the other side, but there have to be better ways.
so until there are - no way man.

[Vanish]

You should actually read the law and not what the media shoves into your koolaid. It strictly prohibits racial profiling and it works identically to probable cause, meaning it cannot be the reason for approaching the person it must be a secondary consideration.

Frankly, I applaud Arizona. The current laws don't work and having the city with the most abductions (kidnappings) in the world, more than the next two closest cities combined, they have to do SOMETHING.

Oh, the MLB isn't considering the move at all. Thus far, the commissioner has flat out stated he won't consider it. Doesn't stop liberals from being squeaky wheels though. If it moves because a bunch of people unaffected by the law and completely ignorant about it's intent, need, and stated enforcement, then MLB is truly coming to it's sunset days. I think they'll find they lose more fans if they move it than if they don't.

[OU8]

1 thing to consider is, what if this was happening in your neighborhood?  Don't you think it's a bit hard to judge this situation if you're not living it?  Most Arizonans support the law, which speaks volumes for me. 

You have to strip away what the politicos are spewing from both sides and critically think about the problem they are addressing.  I think this country long ago decided we could not continue to support uncontrolled, undocumented immigration.  Is it really wrong to allow people into this country in an organized manner?  If the answer is yes, then you should be arguing to get rid of all forms of ID, and the IRS, and anything where the govt can track you -- if they shouldn't track illegals, then why the hell is it OK to track legal residents/citizens.

Most arguments "against" the issue smell of political agenda, with very little facts and full of scare tactics -- something both sides use way, way too much.

Read the law people, or you'll end up looking like this guy.  "I'm against it, though I haven't read it."  Yikes.

[Blimigerite]

The law definitely has merits.  Washington has been quite about any immigration reform.  They know it's an issue and it's been largely ignored for too long.  The states have rights to look after their own.  And illegals are not their own.  More and more states and even cities are looking for tougher laws to punish not just the illegals but the businesses and the renters that give them the ability to stay here. 

There are ways to solve the issue being granting every illegal citizenship but realistically that is not going to happen.  I think the better solution is to punish the ones here already but open wide the door to let people come into the country easier.  There is just too much bureaucracy bullshit that people have to jump through so many hoops that it's ridiculous crazy to come into the country.  The poor being the most likely to want to move into America have the hardest time.  They are the ones that come illegally to try to better their family life and build a better future. 

I hope Arizona's law stays and proves successful no matter the poor PR they are getting.  And I hope other states jump on the bandwagon so the people in Washington are forced to either make a final decision or realize that there are going to be states that say we've had enough and are taking it into our own hands.  Personally I'm more for state rights than letting the politicians in Washington decide. 

[Thunder]

Don't expect Washington to do squat regarding illegals, the Republicans need the cheap labor for their corporate buddies, and the Democrats need generations of loyal voters to give amnesty to to keep them in power after all their one-world government scheming bullshit.

Individual states need to erect the E-verify system and be done with it.   If they can't work then they can't send money back to their country of origin.   While the almighty racism trump card would get waived impotently in the air like usual, it will be obvious as usual that it is the same nonsense, the end.

[Thunder]

Only because it is awesome:

[El DeBarge]

Afterthought, bubby, you swung and missed. 

I read some statistical analysis that indicated that >50% of Arizona's hispanic community supports the law.  It doesn't have to do with what language you speak, when you are laying awake at night because of the law-breakers hiking thru your yard, you want someone to enforce the laws that are supposedly already on the books.  So I applaud Arizona seizing the opportunity to assert concurrent jurisdiction. 

My reading of the law (specifically the "lawful contact" clause) does differ from Vanish's "identical to probable cause" assertion, tho it doesn't change my conclusion.  My understanding is that "lawful contact" will need to be clarified thru case law, which is a pretty common thing.  So, yeah, it's possible that if an unregistered van with 20 non-english speakers in it comes up to a plain clothes police officer and asks for directions, that cop could potentially lawfully demand to see papers.  Which isn't, of course, identical to probable cause, but I would have no issue with either reading being where case law takes things.  At any rate, cops can't just start busting balls and demanding papers, they need to show a pattern or confluence of factors leading them to suspect illegal residence for any charges to stick under the law. 

The most rational critique of the law that I've heard was that given by a legal resident coworker (and all around good guy), at least after I confronted him on de-FUDing his initial knee-jerk opinion.  After that, his position was that he was still going to avoid Arizona in rational ignorance, since it will take time and effort to figure out the potential impact of the new law on him, and he can easily avoid going to Arizona.  As with most of this general topic, the travesty isn't how we treat illegal immigrants, it's how we treat the fine men and women willing to immigrate lawfully. 

I think the answer should involve:

• a foreign worker program, to get workers registered and above board.  They can pay taxes, just like the rest of us.
• the removal of so-called birthright citizenship
• a fatass wall and/or mobile surveillance (drones)
• Judge Fucking Dredd

Just wait until a slew of other states pass a similar law.  "Haven" states (such as I'm sure California will be, at least initially), will start having to bear the costs of this themselves, and maybe the harsh light of reality push them toward pragmatism. 

[Vanish]

You are correct, El DeBarge. I figured for most people stating "identical to probable cause" would get the general gist across without having to explain it. Yep, I'm a lazy bastage.